Waist Away: The Intermittent Fasting & Weight Loss Podcast

Dr. David Jockers - How can fasting potentially cause weaker bowel movements, and what can you do to increase peristaltic movement and have a healthy poop? How do you fix leg cramps? What drinks break a fast?


He is a doctor of natural medicine, a functional nutritionist and corrective care chiropractor. He currently owns and operates Exodus Health Center in Kennesaw, Georgia and runs one of the hottest natural health websites in DrJockers.com with over 1 million monthly visitors.

Dr Jockers is a world-renowned expert in the area of ketosis, fasting and the ketogenic diet. He is the developer of the bestselling “Navigating the Ketogenic Diet” E-course and the host of the popular “Keto Edge Summit” and the “Fasting Transformation Summit” which both had over 100,000 people attend from all over the world.

He is also the developer of the bestselling “Fasting Transformation Quickstart Program” and “Navigating the Ketogenic Diet” online program. These programs have had tens of thousands of participants and helped many reach their health goals.

(0:00) She’s a business mogul, and wellness expert. How can I help? And now Chantel Ray and her 

(0:07) amazing guests are here to guide you on your wellness journey. Time to level up.

(0:12) Welcome to the Waste Away podcast. 

(0:20) Hey guys, welcome to today’s episode. And I’m so excited.

One of my absolute favorite people, 

(0:26) Dr. David Jockers, who is an expert on fasting. He’s got so many fasting books. He’s done so 

(0:33) many fasting podcasts, and we are here, and we’re actually going to be talking about how fasting 

(0:40) can potentially hurt your mobility in your gut.

But we’re going to talk about the five steps 

(0:47) to help you to have a healthy poop, increase your peristaltic movement, and so much more. 

(0:53) So Dr. David Jockers, welcome. 

(0:56) Chantel, always great to connect with you.

(0:58) So one of the things that, and you know I am the fasting queen, and there is one area that I still 

(1:07) personally struggle with. I feel like I really struggle with constipation on a regular basis. 

(1:15) And I believe that with as much fasting as I’ve done in my life, I truly believe that 

(1:22) doing fasting actually can potentially hurt your mobility and your peristaltic movement 

(1:27) if you don’t do some things right.

So I want you to really talk about what can people do 

(1:34) so that they can have the healthiest poop. But before we do, let’s talk about, first of all, 

(1:41) what does a healthy poop look like? 

(1:46) Yeah, that’s a great question. And this is one of my favorite topics because, you know, 

(1:50) in my early 20s, I actually struggled with irritable bowel syndrome.

And so I had intense 

(1:55) gut pain, and I would have constipation, diarrhea, right, and all kinds of different 

(2:00) issues. And I actually ended up losing about 30, 35 pounds. And I was a personal trainer.

So I was 

(2:04) eating six meals a day, time I woke up, time I went to bed, doing everything I could to kind of 

(2:10) maintain a certain amount of muscle mass. And that actually is what helped get me into 

(2:16) intermittent fasting. It’s what caused me to change my diet.

And I discovered intermittent 

(2:21) fasting, even though that term was not popular. In fact, I had never heard the term. I just found 

(2:26) that I felt better when I compressed my eating window.

And so for me, somebody who struggled 

(2:33) with constipation at times for probably the first 21 years of my life, this is an important topic. 

(2:39) And when we think about what the importance of poop, you know, we’ve probably all heard that 

(2:44) we have more bacteria in our bodies than we have cells in our body, right, when we look at the gut 

(2:51) microbiome. And some researchers believe that when you wake up in the morning and you’ve yet to have 

(2:58) a bowel movement, that you have somewhere between, you know, three to 10 times more bacteria in your 

(3:04) body than you have cells in your body.

And then when you have a good bowel movement in the morning, 

(3:09) you’re more like a one-to-one ratio. So you become more human again. And so, and we’ve all felt that, 

(3:16) right, because these bacteria, when they’re in the gut, they’re releasing different types of 

(3:20) molecules.

And many of them are releasing endotoxins that drive up inflammation in the body. 

(3:25) So critical that we’re having good bowel movements to clear those out. And we also, when we’re having 

(3:29) bowel movements, we’re sweeping out a ton of different toxins that our liver has deactivated 

(3:35) and put into the feces.

And so we don’t want those recirculating. When feces sits in our gut, 

(3:42) toxins will start to recirculate in our system and cause more inflammation throughout our whole body. 

(3:47) And so the time of day when our gut is most active is actually between 6 a.m. and 9 a.m. 

(3:53) and then also shortly after meals.

And so that’s the best time to have good bowel movements. And 

(3:58) normally our bowel movements should look like a coiled up snake in the toilet bowl. If you see it 

(4:04) just all these little tiny pieces, that’s not a healthy bowel movement.

If you see it very loose, 

(4:09) watery, not a healthy bowel movement. If it’s really hard to get out, not a healthy bowel 

(4:13) movement. It should be like a coiled up snake looking back at you.

And you shouldn’t have to 

(4:19) wipe a whole lot, right? You should have maybe three or four wipes and be done. If you’ve got 

(4:24) a very messy stool, that’s a sign that there was more mucus and inflammation that was produced in 

(4:31) that. And so how do we attain really good bowel movements? Well, I think intermittent fasting 

(4:37) actually is one of the best strategies for helping us improve the diversity and overall health of 

(4:45) the gut microbiome and helping support a healthy gut lining.

And I can go into the science of that. 

(4:51) However, fasting alone is not going to help you have good bowel movements because you need 

(4:55) something to help activate the peristaltic waves, the basically muscle contractions of the 

(5:03) smooth muscle in your gut. And so the type of muscle that your intestines are is a type of 

(5:10) muscle that’s controlled by what we call our autonomic nervous system.

We don’t have to 

(5:13) think about it. You can’t just sit there and concentrate on, like you can with your bicep. 

(5:18) You can’t do that with your gut.

You can’t just be like, okay, I’m going to contract this. 

(5:22) It’s an automatic wave and it’s controlled by, in particular, the main nerve is the vagus nerve 

(5:28) that actually comes from your brainstem. Vagus is Latin for wanderer, travels down from the 

(5:33) brainstem into circulate or into all the viscera, right? Helps control your heart rate, lungs, 

(5:39) goes into your digestive system and it controls peristaltic muscle contractions in your gut.

(5:46) And so in order to activate that vagus nerve, there are a couple of principles that tend to 

(5:50) work for most people. And then there’s some personalization that goes into it as well. 

(5:56) So when we start to think about, for example, the things that work well for everybody, well, 

(6:01) number one is your rhythm, right? And so again, 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. is when your gut is going to be 

(6:06) most active according to Chinese medicine.

And that’s when most people who have healthy 

(6:11) bowel movements, they will tell you, oh yeah, I have a bowel movement in the morning when I get 

(6:15) up, right? Anybody that’s got a good normal rhythm are telling you, yes, I have a bowel movement 

(6:20) usually within the first hour of waking. And so that is kind of the best place to start when 

(6:25) it comes to good bowel movements. So I recommend when you wake up, some people do really well 

(6:30) going for a walk that actually helps them.

Other people don’t, they need to be kind of still and 

(6:35) relaxed, right? So you kind of have to personalize that. But one thing I’ve seen help just about 

(6:40) everybody is warm beverages. So drinking warm herbal tea, warm lemon water, you could use 

(6:47) lemon water if you want, you could use herbal tea, both of those things help activate that 

(6:52) vagus nerve.

And also coffee can help. Okay, now, typically when it comes to caffeine metabolism, 

(6:57) I recommend waiting about 90 minutes before you have coffee because you naturally have an 

(7:04) elevation in cortisol when you first wake up in the morning. And that cortisol starts to go down 

(7:10) roughly after 90 minutes.

And so that’s a good time to have some of that caffeine to kind of boost up 

(7:16) those stress hormones if you tolerate and if you metabolize caffeine well. And you’ll notice that 

(7:21) you just have better energy throughout the day, you have less of the caffeine crash that some 

(7:25) people notice when they consume coffee first thing in the morning. Okay, so usually I recommend that 

(7:30) an hour and a half after if possible.

But for some people they need even a sip or two will help them 

(7:35) move their bowels. And if they feel like that’s the only thing that gets them going, then I’m okay 

(7:38) with that. Most people have experienced, you know, when you have coffee, it helps you move your 

(7:43) bowels.

The caffeine helps activate the parasaltic waves and gets things moving. And again, when you 

(7:49) reduce all the bacteria and endotoxins, you just feel significantly better. But if you can do it 

(7:53) with herbal tea, if you can do it with warm, just warm beverage in general, something warm will 

(7:58) activate that vagus nerve and help get things moving.

I know for me when I was struggling with 

(8:05) irregularity in my bowel movements, for whatever reason, when I sat on my knees, interesting posture, 

(8:12) right? So I would like sit at my desk, right? And I would, or on my laptop or whatever, and I would 

(8:20) just be on my knees. And that for whatever reason, that seemed to relax my internal organs and it 

(8:28) would help stimulate a bowel movement. Now I’m very regular, so I could be sitting in any position 

(8:34) and I will be able to, you know, have the urge for the bowel movement in the morning.

(8:40) But you might need a certain posture. My wife, for example, she’ll sit, she sits on her bed 

(8:47) and she’ll be reading her Bible, right? And she sits in a certain position on her bed and that 

(8:51) just helps her move her bowels. So sometimes you got to play around with it a little bit, 

(8:54) find like a good sitting posture, a good posture that seems to work for you.

Again, some people, 

(8:59) it’s just moving, right? Just kind of taking a walk seems to help activate it, a light walk. 

(9:04) Now, intense exercise is not going to help you. It’s the opposite system than the vagus nerve.

(9:09) It’s your sympathetic nervous system. So I would recommend making sure you get the bowel movement 

(9:14) out before you do any sort of intense exercise. So just taking a light walk or getting in a good 

(9:19) posture position, drinking out the warm beverage, that can all help.

And also sometimes like a 

(9:24) little abdominal massage, particularly in the bottom right quadrant of your gut, that’s where 

(9:32) your ileocecal valve is. And for some individuals that ileocecal valve tends to close and almost 

(9:40) like where your appendix is, especially people have had their appendix taken out. A lot of times 

(9:43) they have scar tissue in there.

And so just kind of doing a little gentle massage, right? That can 

(9:49) actually help open that ileocecal valve and allow things to move through. And you can almost kind of 

(9:56) follow that large intestine up. So you kind of come from the lower right quadrant up to the 

(10:01) upper right quadrant, and then over the transverse colon, and then down the descending colon, that

(10:07) can help.

And interestingly, your large intestine, there’s also a reflex point, and it’s in your 

(10:17) iliotibial band, which is basically on the lateral or the outer portion of your thigh. 

(10:23) And so for a lot of people, and this is something I actually used back when I did struggle with 

(10:28) constipation, I would massage the outer portion of my thighs. And a lot of people are really tight 

(10:34) in this area.

It’s a muscle called your tensor fascia lata and TFL, and your iliotibial band, 

(10:41) which connects your hip down to one of the bones in your leg, right? Your tibia. 

(10:50) And so that band can get real tight. And so you start to massage that out, or you can get on like 

(10:55) a foam roller and work that a little bit.

And a lot of times that’s a reflex point for the large 

(11:00) intestine. A large intestine, as that muscle relaxes, the large intestine relaxes as well. And that can 

(11:06) help get things moving through there.

So just a couple quick tips right there that I think can be 

(11:11) really helpful. Did you guys know that 97% of Americans are deficient in at least one mineral? 

(11:18) It’s true. You need more than a dozen minerals for your body to function in its best, but with the 

(11:26) standard American diet, it’s almost impossible.

So here’s where Bean Minerals comes in. 

(11:33) Guess what? All you have to do, take one little shot of this one, one little shot of this one, 

(11:39) and guess what? It looks like this, but it tastes like water. 

(11:43) Take one shot, and boom, in 30 seconds a day, you’re getting an entire thing of minerals, 

(11:53) instead of an entire cabinet of supplement bottles.

So with Bean Minerals, we make mineral balance 

(12:01) simple. I’m going to read a question from a listener, and this is from Bobby Joe Stevens in 

(12:08) San Diego, California. She says, I eat in a four to six-hour eating window almost every day.

(12:15) I’ve lost over 15 pounds. I’ve listened to your audio book, Waste Away, and One Meal and a 

(12:20) Tasting, and I listen in about 15-minute increments. I have about 10 pounds to go.

(12:26) listen in my car almost every day. I have irritable bowel syndrome and alternating constipation and 

(12:34) diarrhea. I’m constantly constipated, and I have major pains in my stomach at night, and I think 

(12:40) it’s from constipation, but I’m not sure.

I’m constantly taking all these different natural 

(12:45) laxatives, and then I have diarrhea, and then I go back to being constipated. My friends tell me I 

(12:51) need to lengthen my eating window because I’m eating too much in a small period. I know I’ve 

(12:56) heard you talk about being constipated on the podcast.

What are some other tips that you’ve 

(13:02) done, and what do you think is causing the stomach pain? It’s only at night when I lay down and go to 

(13:07) bed. Sharp pain’s right in the middle of my stomach. What other tips do you have for me? 

(13:12) Walking seems to help, and using my Squatty Potty does help as well, but it’s not the end-all, 

(13:20) be-all.

Bobby Joe Stevens from San Diego, California. Yeah. This is a common question, 

(13:26) Bobby Joe, so I’m glad that you asked it.

Squatty Potty can be real helpful. It actually moves your 

(13:30) legs up, puts you in a natural position to help clear the colon, so I’m glad that you mentioned 

(13:36) that because I didn’t mention that earlier, but people getting a Squatty Potty notice that 

(13:40) oftentimes it does improve bowel movements, but obviously with her, she’s still having issues. 

(13:47) I would ask, first off, what you’re eating, and so obviously taking a look at that.

Your body may 

(13:53) be having a reaction to the foods that you’re eating. For example, some people are not able 

(13:58) to tolerate a higher FODMAP diet. FODMAP means fermentable oligodye monosaccharides and polyols, 

(14:08) which is basically a big term for a lot of vegetables, more or less, and so a lot of 

(14:14) these foods that are FODMAPs are what we consider very healthy foods, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, 

(14:20) kale, artichokes, a lot of these types of things that when we think about healthy foods, 

(14:28) we think about those foods, but for a lot of people, their unique gut microbiome, 

(14:35) it over-ferments them, particularly early in the digestive tract, in the small intestine, 

(14:41) and they get unwanted symptoms, so oftentimes we’ll do a lower FODMAP trial where we’ll take 

(14:47) out a lot of these foods, again, foods that you would think are super healthy, avocados even 

(14:51) are high FODMAP, but we do some lower FODMAP vegetables like green beans, carrots, cucumbers, 

(15:00) bell peppers are low FODMAP, arugula, you still do some of those vegetables, 

(15:05) and then healthy meats and olive oil as kind of a main fat or butter, and a lot of times people 

(15:12) see big improvements in their overall bowel movements, and so you kind of have to figure out, 

(15:17) and then over time, you can start adding back some of these FODMAPs and kind of figure out where 

(15:21) your threshold is, like for me, and I think pretty much most people are in a bell curve, 

(15:27) and the bell curve is this, is that on one end of the bell curve, people just don’t do well with a 

(15:32) lot of plant-based fiber, and on the other end of the bell curve, people do amazing with a lot of 

(15:39) plant-based fiber, and so you might have a friend that is eating salads all the time, 

(15:43) and they feel amazing, they feel the best they’ve ever felt eating lots and lots of plants, 

(15:48) and they don’t eat a whole lot of protein, a whole lot of animal foods, and then you have 

(15:51) somebody else that does amazing on a carnivore diet or a very low-carb, low-FODMAP diet, 

(15:57) and they seem to do amazing, and it has to do with how much of these kind of plant-based fibers that 

(16:02) they can consume, so usually when I have somebody that’s struggling with bloating like this, 

(16:06) I’ll start them with a lower-FODMAP diet, even for a week, and see how they feel, 

(16:13) and you can find a list of high-FODMAP, low-FODMAP foods, just go on Google, 

(16:17) easy to find, and see how your body responds.

Another thing would be maybe adding in some 

(16:23) digestive enzymes, and that can help you, and then some people, for example, they are not producing 

(16:29) enough stomach acid, and if you don’t produce enough stomach acid, which is actually very 

(16:34) common, we call this hypochloridria, when you’re not producing enough stomach acid, 

(16:38) you can’t sterilize the food you’re consuming, so you end up with bacterial overgrowth, 

(16:44) you don’t break down protein well, you don’t metabolize vitamin B12, different minerals 

(16:49) very well, you don’t activate enough bile release, because you need a very acidic bolus, 

(16:55) bolus means a predigested food, moving into the small intestine to activate good bile release, 

(16:59) and bile helps to emulsify fatty acids, and it also helps to, it’s very antimicrobial, 

(17:05) so is acid, and so that helps keep the bacterial balance in your small intestine down, 

(17:10) so if you’re not producing enough stomach acid, which I said is very common, 

(17:14) then you may have more digestive symptoms, particularly when you’re eating something like 

(17:19) a steak, or, you know, harder to digest protein, because you really need that acid for it, 

(17:24) and sometimes you see a lot of these kind of conditions, you know, where you have somebody 

(17:28) with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and low stomach acid together, so we have to look at 

(17:32) that, so a couple things you can do to kind of test yourself at home, one is a steak test, 

(17:38) get six ounces of steak, cook it, don’t put anything on it other than salt, and just eat that 

(17:44) all alone, and then see how your body feels over the next, let’s say, three or four hours, okay, 

(17:49) normally you should feel good, it’s very blood sugar stabilizing, right, good protein, you should 

(17:54) feel very good, okay, if you’re noticing that you’re bloated, acid reflux, brain fog, right, 

(17:59) just don’t feel good, you have skin issues, whatever it is, it’s a sign you’re not producing 

(18:03) enough stomach acid, another test is a broccoli test, get some steamed broccoli, steam it up, 

(18:09) don’t put anything on it other than salt, and just have steamed broccoli, okay, and see how you feel 

(18:15) over the next few hours, do you feel bloated, do you feel, you know, do you have acid reflux, 

(18:21) do you have worsening symptoms, if that’s the case, you probably have bacterial overgrowth, 

(18:27) you need a lower FODMAP diet, you can also try it with some digestive enzymes and see if that helps, 

(18:33) and so these are just a couple tests that you can do, you know, the third one would be like, 

(18:36) do a fat bomb, right, so if you look up on Google fat bomb recipe, you’ll find a fat bomb, 

(18:43) right, you probably had one before, Chantal, it’s like three, four hundred calories of just 

(18:47) coconut fat, usually in chocolate fat, it’s basically just all fat, you eat that and just 

(18:52) see how your body responds, again, if you’re feeling bloated, you have pain in your gut, 

(18:56) nauseous, it’s a sign you’re probably not producing enough bile, right, you need to get that bile 

(19:01) release in order to emulsify those fats, probably not doing that, so you need a little bit lower 

(19:06) amounts of fat in your meals and you need to do things to help support good bile flow, 

(19:11) and so that’s what you would want to do, and all of these things can be addressed, 

(19:15) like a low FODMAP diet is really good for helping clean up that small intestine, 

(19:19) to get good contractions in the gut, if you want to support bile, right, doing bitter herbs, 

(19:26) so things like artichokes, for example, radishes, cilantro, parsley, dandelion, 

(19:32) milk thistle supplements, so we say bitter is good for your liver, your liver is what produces 

(19:37) the bile, okay, and people will say, well, do I do that if I don’t have a gallbladder? 

(19:41) Yeah, because if you don’t have a gallbladder, that’s actually a late stage, that means you 

(19:47) had your gallbladder taken out, so if you had your gallbladder taken out, that means you’ve 

(19:50) had congested bile ducts in your liver and then also in your, the gallbladder you used to have 

(19:56) for a long time, okay, and so it’s more of like a late stage, so you really need to do everything 

(20:01) you can to help to open up those bile ducts, thin out the bile, so a lot of these kind of bitter 

(20:06) types of herbs are really supportive of that, and you can also get bile salt 

(20:10) supplements and ox bile and things like that, like a bile salt would be something like choline 

(20:16) that is actually, because bile is basically cholesterol and salt, right, and it kind of 

(20:23) flows, right, and it’s how we actually eliminate, one of the ways that we eliminate cholesterol, 

(20:28) it’s a way that we eliminate toxins, and so along with bilirubin, there’s a compound 

(20:32) called bilirubin that’s in bile as well, and so, and that’s what makes our stools brown, 

(20:38) right, so if you have like pale color stools, a lot of times you’re not getting enough bile out, 

(20:42) so those things can help, those types of herbs, hydrating your body really well, 

(20:47) right, the kind of the herbal teas I was talking about, you know, in the morning can really help 

(20:50) with bile flow, and a lot of those things work well for stomach acid too, like chewing on some 

(20:55) ginger root or drinking ginger tea, ginger is a great stimulant for, really helps stimulate 

(21:01) stomach acid production, so that can be super helpful, apple cider vinegar, like right before 

(21:06) meals can be really helpful, because it’s already, you know, acidic and it will help to activate 

(21:11) the vagus nerve to produce more acid, and in some cases we need betaine, actually a lot of cases we 

(21:17) need some extra stomach acid support in the form of betaine HCL, and finding the right dosage of 

(21:22) that to support stomach acid levels, so that’s where I would look based on her symptoms, number 

(21:28) one is looking at her diet, seeing what she’s eating on a regular basis, maybe she’s eating 

(21:31) something if she has, you know, a serious, you know, a sensitivity to, right, that’s another 

(21:37) thing, a lot of people are doing low carb, they’re doing a lot of sugar alcohols, like maybe erythritol 

(21:42) or something like that, and for many of them, they don’t digest those well, so just, you know, 

(21:46) dialing back on the sugar alcohols oftentimes can be helpful, we can play around with the FODMAPs, 

(21:51) we can play around with digestive enzymes, things to help support stomach acid bile production, 

(21:55) and kind of figure it out from there. Guys, I just want to interrupt for just a second, 

(22:00) and I want you to hear Paul Saladino talk about why liver is so important, 

(22:06) and if you don’t like liver, we have another option for you. Your ancestors were eating liver, 

(22:12) and the reason that this sort of wisdom has been passed down is because liver is very nutritious, 

(22:16) it’s basically nature’s multivitamin, if you look at the nutrients in meat, they’re great, 

(22:20) you’ve got zinc, you got B6, you got B12, you got some K2, but if you look at liver, 

(22:24) it really complements what’s in muscle meat, and there are many unique nutrients found in organs, 

(22:29) specifically liver, as a powerhouse of these, that are difficult to obtain outside of liver, 

(22:33) like meat and organs are like peanut butter and jelly, they just go together, 

(22:36) they’re supposed to be eaten together, the easiest way to eat liver is just to do it raw, 

(22:39) if you don’t want to eat liver raw, you can cook it, but the reason that I like to do it raw is 

(22:43) because there are unique nutrients in liver that are probably somewhat degraded when you cook the 

(22:47) liver.

This really is like the most nutrient-rich supplements that you can find, and they are 

(22:53) amazing, I have tried them, I absolutely love them, so just go to heartandsoil.co, 

(22:58) use the coupon code Chantal Ray, and save yourself some money. 

(23:07) Yeah, so one of the things that I think, you know, a lot of people don’t realize is like, 

(23:14) as far as the fiber, like you said, that they’re not getting enough fiber, and so that’s causing 

(23:20) constipation as well, but then a lot of the diets, like the keto diet and stuff like that, 

(23:27) there isn’t a ton of fiber in there, so how would someone balance that, like, 

(23:32) of eating enough fiber, but also, you know, if someone was trying to do more of a keto-ish diet, 

(23:38) what do you do to balance that? Yeah, I actually see the issue with, 

(23:44) so fiber I think is over-marketed, and I actually see more people have problems eating too much 

(23:50) fiber than too little. Now, if you are eating a standard American diet, you’re probably not 

(23:55) getting good forms of fiber, right, and so going on, you know, basically a diet with healthy meats, 

(24:02) fats, and fruits and vegetables, oftentimes people feel just significantly better, 

(24:06) and, you know, you really have to play around to see how much fiber you need to consume, 

(24:11) okay? So in, you know, typically in the functional health world, there’s kind of this blanket 

(24:16) statement that if you, if your gut isn’t doing well, you need more fiber, and I actually find 

(24:21) that that’s oftentimes the opposite is true, right? Actually, sometimes you need less fiber, 

(24:25) so you have to see how much you’re consuming already, how much of these plant-based foods 

(24:29) you’re consuming already, and then kind of figure out what the right amount is for you, okay? So 

(24:36) I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t focus on the amount of grams of fiber.

I would just kind of look at 

(24:41) the consistency of your meals and see how you feel when you’re eating those particular foods. 

(24:46) So these higher FODMAP vegetables, they support more microbiome diversity. They’re actually 

(24:52) healthy foods, and they are healthy for your gut microbiome, but if you already have an overgrowth, 

(24:57) particularly an overgrowth in your small intestine, you need to dial back on those 

(25:01) at least for a period of time, and then we can start to add them back in and kind of figure 

(25:06) out a tolerance point for you.

So I think that’s key, right? So, yeah, so I always recommend starting 

(25:13) with 30 to, when you set up your meals, 30 to 50 grams of healthy, high-quality animal protein, 

(25:21) around 15 to 20 grams of healthy fats, maybe more. So like I can do a high amount of fat in a meal 

(25:26) and feel good. Other people, because they have congested bile ducts, they can’t do as much fat.

(25:31) And then from there, add in colorful fruits and vegetables. And then, you know, from there, 

(25:37) if you’re setting up your diet like that, yet you’re not feeling good, you’re having these 

(25:41) digestive symptoms, the things you want to play around with are looking at how well you’re breaking 

(25:47) down protein, like look at your stomach acid. We talked about the steak test.

Look at how well 

(25:51) you’re breaking down FODMAPs. We talked about the broccoli test. Look at how well you’re breaking 

(25:55) down fat.

We talked about the fat bomb test, right? And then address it from there. Hopefully, 

(26:02) that makes sense. Yeah, and I will say I have one trick that I didn’t know until just recently 

(26:08) about how to sit on a squatty potty when you do.

And it’s where you not just sit on the squatty 

(26:16) potty, but you actually take your arms and your whole body and you lean over and actually put 

(26:22) your hands kind of like near your ankles so that you’re changing the posture that you’re sitting in. (26:30) You know, we were not meant to sit on toilets, you know, and so it’s like if you don’t have 

(26:35) comfortable bowel movements, you know, I remember President Jimmy Carter back in 1978, 

(26:42) there was this Time Magazine article that I had read about, and he actually, 

(26:48) the president missed a day of work due to hemorrhoids. And he quoted something like, 

(26:55) we were not meant to sit on toilets, we were meant to squat in the field.

So he must have done some 

(26:59) kind of research or something. And that always stuck with me. And if you think about it, 

(27:04) our ancestors did squat.

And so getting your body in that right position, and it’s kind of like this, 

(27:12) it’s like a recto-anal angle. And that angle, getting your body in that perfect angle, 

(27:19) which is what happens when you squat, really helps things move along. And so that was just a game 

(27:27) changer for me.

So every single bathroom in my house actually has a squatty potty. So like, 

(27:32) if you come over in our guest room or whatever, there’s a squatty potty in there. And we had a 

(27:39) party on Saturday, and they said, every one of, because we have like seven bathrooms, and he’s 

(27:44) like, every one of your bathrooms has a squatty potty? And he was kind of joking me about it.

(27:49) And I’m like, yeah, because if you have to poop while you’re at my house, I want you to be able 

(27:54) to do it right. Fully clear out. There you go.

(28:00) And also for me, walking. Walking is such a big thing. The more I walk, the better poop that I 

(28:08) have.

And breathing. I really don’t breathe well. I went and got a massage the other day, 

(28:16) and the guy said to me, he said, Ms. Ray, don’t take this the wrong way, but you breathe like a 

(28:21) scared squirrel.

That was his exact words to me. And I just, I don’t inhale and exhale properly. 

(28:30) And if you think about it, when you go on vacation, you know how people always say, 

(28:34) like when they go and they’re in a strange place or they’re busy, that can exacerbate constipation.

(28:42) And so just like really relaxing and breathing, which I don’t do well, but the more better I do 

(28:51) it, I do actually feel better. Yeah, that’s key. And there’s also a 

(28:55) relationship between nasal breathing and mouth breathing and your bowel movements as well, 

(29:00) because when you’re mouth breathing, you’re activating more of the sympathetic branch of 

(29:08) your nervous system.

When you’re nasal breathing, you’re activating that vagus nerve, and that’s 

(29:12) going to help you with the peristaltic activity in your gut. So I used to be more of a mouth 

(29:20) breather until I retrained my nervous system to be a nasal breather. One of the ways that I did 

(29:25) that was just by being intentional about it, just kind of as I would sit there thinking about 

(29:30) breathing only through my nose.

And then at night, I actually started putting tape over my mouth. 

(29:36) This was years ago, called mouth taping. And what that does obviously forces me to have to breathe 

(29:42) through my nose at night while I’m sleeping.

And so you want to retrain your physiology. 

(29:46) Most people in our society are mouth breathers, are breathing mostly from their mouth. 

(29:51) And that’s, again, associated with sympathetic nervous system.

So you need good vagal tone in 

(29:59) your vagus nerve, and that’s part of the parasympathetic branch, and they’re antagonistic 

(30:03) to each other. The more we’re activating the sympathetic nervous system, the more we down 

(30:08) regulate and get less activity in the parasympathetic. The more we activate the 

(30:12) parasympathetic, we’re getting less activity in the sympathetic.

So just the way we breathe, 

(30:16) if you’re nasal breathing, you’re going to get more activity in the parasympathetic branch, 

(30:21) so you’re going to get better muscle contractions in the vagus nerve. So as you’re sitting, 

(30:26) taking breaths, make sure you’re nasal breathing. And yeah, take those long breaths.

That tells 

(30:32) your body you’re in a safe place, because our physiology is all designed for survival. 

(30:37) So if you’re taking short, shallow breaths, it thinks you’re scared and you may be 

(30:40) like danger is around. And so it’s going to activate the sympathetic nervous system.

(30:45) If danger is around, it’s not a good time to have bowel movement, right? If you’re safe, 

(30:49) good time to have bowel movement. So the way you breathe really helps to communicate with 

(30:57) the rest of your physiology on your environmental condition. 

(31:01) I just started using mouth tape, and I have an Oura ring, and I’m tracking to see.

I already 

(31:07) get really good sleep. I get kind of a crown every night for most nights on the Oura ring, 

(31:13) but I’m just kind of tracking. How long did it take for you to use the mouth tape? And do you 

(31:20) feel like you still need it now? And how long does it take to use that mouth tape to train your 

(31:26) body to breathe through your nose instead of your mouth? Or do you feel like you still have to use 

(31:31) the mouth tape? Yeah, I think you could probably use it for about a month.

And I mean, you should 

(31:35) be able to train yourself within a month. And then you just kind of look for symptoms. Are you waking 

(31:39) up with out of breath? Or are you waking up with dry mouth? Do you have a dry mouth when you wake 

(31:47) up in the morning? Sign your mouth breathing.

Or kind of try to observe yourself as you’re working 

(31:54) or as you’re doing your daily life. Do you feel like you’re mouth breathing? And so those are kind 

(32:00) of the ways that you try to observe. And then, yeah, I think once you train your nervous system, 

(32:06) you don’t necessarily need to go back unless you’re seeing signs that you are mouth breathing 

(32:11) and then get back on the mouth tape.

Okay. This next question comes from Samir in Phoenix, 

(32:18) Arizona. And it’s such a long question.

So I’m just going to summarize it in my own words. 

(32:23) And basically what Samir is saying is that he is taking so many supplements and he feels like it’s 

(32:33) just overloaded. And so it’s like, what are kind of the supplements that you would suggest? Like, 

(32:39) obviously, ideally, we’d get every nutrient that we could from our food, but our food sources have 

(32:45) gotten so poor that it’s really hard to do that.

But what he says is, and I love it because I can 

(32:51) relate to this, is basically that every time he listens to another podcast, it’s like, well, 

(32:56) you’re missing this and you’re missing that and you’re missing that. And then literally the counter 

(33:01) has 50 supplements and then you feel terrible because you’re taking so many. So kind of, 

(33:08) if you had to choose kind of the top five of what it would be, what would that look like for you? 

(33:17) Yeah, it’s a great question.

And ultimately to really know it needs to be personalized, 

(33:22) but I would say like a really good high quality multivitamin is a good approach, good thing to do. 

(33:29) Magnesium, I find that so many people are magnesium deficient and that’s one of the 

(33:33) supplements I see people really respond, they feel the benefit of that. In our society,

(33:37) we’re so sympathetic dominant, we’re so on the go, so much stress.

Magnesium really helps calm us 

(33:43) and it’s needed in the mitochondria to produce energy. And you need it really for everything 

(33:48) in your body. We say magnesium is to the body what oil is to a car.

And most of us, 

(33:53) it’s hard to get it in your diet. And so I find that supplementation is really helpful. 

(33:58) For most people, they need extra vitamin D. Most people are not sunbathing on a regular basis.

(34:04) And so they need extra vitamin D. Now you might be, you might get a lot of sun exposure in that, 

(34:09) in that, which case you could test your vitamin D, you may not need it. But depending on where 

(34:13) you live and how much time you spend outdoors, particularly in your bathing suit, right. Or, 

(34:18) you know, without a shirt on basically, you know, if you’re just getting outdoors and getting 

(34:22) your hands and your face sun, you’re not going to produce enough vitamin D. You really need to get 

(34:26) your arms, right? Like legs, like a large portion of your body to really get enough vitamin D from 

(34:32) the sun.

So for most people, vitamin D, and a lot of times you can get vitamin D with vitamin K2. 

(34:38) And sometimes you can get vitamin D, K2, and magnesium all together in a supplement. And I 

(34:43) think that that’s super helpful.

If you can get those all together, I think, I think that’s really 

(34:48) great. For a lot of people, probiotics, they do really well on probiotics. So that can be super 

(34:53) helpful.

And, you know, if I were to add one more, I might say something like maybe some extra 

(35:00) zinc or some liver support supplements. I find that a lot of people need extra support for their 

(35:05) liver. Digestive enzymes can be helpful for a lot of people.

So those would be the kind of areas 

(35:11) that I would, I would go in. Did you guys know that your thyroid’s main food is iodine? And 

(35:17) guess what? Mercury and other toxins gobble up your selenium and your thyroid glands need 

(35:25) selenium to convert iodine to thyroxine. So if you have mercury fillings and with all the toxins 

(35:32) and mold, your selenium gets, just gets gobbled up.

So here’s the bottom line. I take something 

(35:38) called heat thyroid. It’s got iodine, it’s got copper, and it’s got selenium.

Everything you 

(35:45) need to get your thyroid back to functioning without medicine. So go to chantalrayway.com 

(35:51) slash upgraded formulas. Use the coupon code chantalray to get a huge discount.

All right, 

(35:58) I’m going to ask you another listener question. This is from Laura in Little Rock, Arkansas. 

(36:04) I am still getting leg cramps at night.

I take magnesium, but sometimes when I take the magnesium, 

(36:10) the leg cramps can sometimes get worse. The only thing that helps me is a little bit of 

(36:15) coconut water or increasing my potassium. I feel like I’m constantly drinking water and I’m 

(36:21) constantly dehydrated.

The more water I drink, it doesn’t really help, 

(36:26) and I’m just can’t seem to get hydrated. Thanks, dehydrated Laura. 

(36:32) Yeah.

So, you know, you may need to add more potassium in your diet and also maybe more 

(36:37) sodium. So sodium is really key to help get the water into the cells. And a lot of people, 

(36:41) especially if they’re on like a lower carb diet or they’re fasting, they need more sodium because 

(36:46) their insulin is down.

So when insulin… So in our society, we hear that salt is bad. 

(36:52) And if you have high insulin levels, you retain sodium and then you retain water, 

(36:58) and that causes swelling in your body. And it also can cause high blood pressure, 

(37:03) a lot of other different issues.

But when you’re doing intermittent fasting or an extended fast, 

(37:09) or if you’re on a low carb diet, you’re exercising, you are reducing, you’re lowering your insulin. 

(37:14) When insulin gets below a certain threshold, your body doesn’t hold onto the sodium. You 

(37:19) actually need more of it.

So a lot of people do well by taking electrolytes. That’s one way to 

(37:25) help. Obviously, coconut water is real bioavailable, structured water that’s helpful for the body.

(37:35) And it’s got a lot of potassium in it. So for me, I noticed that, for example, 

(37:40) there’s times where I’ve gone real low carb, but I can’t really do that for very long. 

(37:44) I like to add back in fruit.

And so my body does well adding in some extra fruit, and I’m a very 

(37:48) active person anyways, and I do intermittent fasting. So I get into ketosis when I’m intermittent 

(37:54) fasting. And then when I eat usually two to sometimes three meals in, let’s say, a six-hour 

(38:01) eating window, I add in fruit.

And the fruit provides structured water that actually gets 

(38:08) into the cells. If you’re just drinking filtered water, that filtered water can be good for moving 

(38:13) your bowels, and a little bit of it is going to be used and get into the cells. But actually, 

(38:18) structured water, which they call the fourth phase of water, is actually a form that gets 

(38:25) into your cell.

It deeply hydrates your cells better. How do we get structured water? Well, 

(38:32) the number one way is eating fruits and vegetables, right? They’re rich in 

(38:36) naturally structured water. Another way is there’s a device called Onalema.

I actually 

(38:41) have a whole house Onalema where it filters the water and structures it. You can also get a little 

(38:46) stirring device that you can stir your water. It’s just onalemawater.com, I think, or something like (38:52) that.

But yeah, it’s a great way to get structured water into the system. Coconut water is a form of 

(38:58) structured water. So those things can be really helpful.

And I would just tell you, a lot of people 

(39:03) just do better when they take a little bit of salt and put it in, and a little bit of salt on 

(39:08) their finger and take that, and that works well. And then for other people, especially if you’re 

(39:13) noticing that magnesium seems to make the cramping worse, in some cases I’ve seen where a calcium 

(39:25) magnesium supplement, like a powder, people tend to have less and they feel better, right? So you 

(39:33) may need a little bit more calcium. I think it’s potassium.

I will tell you, 

(39:37) I believe lead cramps come from the, and I have no scientific proof for this. I’m telling you, 

(39:45) because I struggle with lead cramps before, I believe that it’s the potassium magnesium ratio. 

(39:52) So it’s not, you know, what happens with people is that they take one thing and then the other 

(39:59) thing is off.

You know, everything in our body has to do with balance as well. And so when we’re not 

(40:06) balanced, that is a really, really big piece of how you can feel better. So I think from the answer 

(40:16) for me is, you know, a lot of times when people think of also, I think the dehydration piece is 

(40:23) another piece.

I think that she needs to drink a lot more, more potassium or have potassium 

(40:27) and find you need the magnesium, but you also have to balance it with potassium. 

(40:32) And then when you think about water, like the water that we think of in just a regular glass, 

(40:38) it tastes good to drink and it feels good to drink and it’s clean, but your body is 70% water, 

(40:45) but it’s not a single ounce of that water is in the form of water of like a Fiji water that you 

(40:52) think, right? It’s actually in a crystalline structure. It’s almost like a jello kind of 

(40:57) structure.

When you go to the hospital and they give you an IV, they’re having, you’re getting, 

(41:04) you know, like I just went to the restore cryotherapy. I got the, not just the saline 

(41:09) bag, but I got it with magnesium, potassium with electrolytes in it. And you know, the water that 

(41:16) you’re holding in your body is, it’s not just the regular water.

So if you drink the water and you 

(41:23) just pee it out and it’s not getting into your cell, that’s where the problem is. And so getting 

(41:30) those electrolytes, I think is one of the biggest keys for me to not having leg cramps. And like you 

(41:37) said, just taking salt, putting it on your tongue or getting some more Celtic sea salt in your diet 

(41:45) can really help.

Yeah, for sure. It can be personalized. Like you said, for you, 

(41:50) just notice better, you’re doing better when you have potassium.

So I found that in a sense, 

(41:56) almost like a trial and error with different individuals, but a good place to start is just 

(42:00) a little bit of electrolytes and, you know, a little bit of salt on your mouth because that’s 

(42:05) on your tongue, because that’s such a low hanging fruit to start with. 

(42:09) Yeah. I’m going to read you one more question that we have, and this is from Donna Wright.

(42:14) Hi, I’m new and I’m starting to get very fatigued and lightheaded. I’m told electrolytes will help, 

(42:21) but to look for capsules instead of powders or drinks that will break a clean fast. Any 

(42:27) recommendations? And then before I move on, because I have like three more questions, 

(42:33) but I’m not going to read them, but they’re all about the same thing.

And it’s people getting 

(42:38) crazy, in my opinion, about this clean fast. And I am really big on having a clean fast, 

(42:48) but at the same time, I’m not Nazi about it. Meaning like if I’m getting fatigued or 

(42:55) lightheaded, if I’m maybe doing a longer fast, I’m going to have a spoonful of pickle juice, 

(43:04) or I might have something like that.

And people will be like, well, that’s not a clean fast. 

(43:10) Okay. Well, I want to fast longer, so I’m going to have a little bit of pickle juice.

(43:15) Or some people are like, well, I just can’t have coffee with no cream. So then they put the cream 

(43:23) and the sugar and I go, okay, find a balance with it and put coconut cream fresh from the can and 

(43:30) try that to, you know, I just think that people start getting so crazy about the clean fast 

(43:37) that then they’re not doing the fasting at all. And my opinion is like, like this girl saying 

(43:45) she’s getting, you know, she’s feeling lightheaded.

It’s like, okay, well have a little bit, have 

(43:52) electrolyte powder and not worry that it has 10 calories in it or whatever it has. 

(44:00) So what’s your opinion? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I agree. I mean, 

(44:03) I like the element electrolytes.

I’ll use those and they have an unsweetened. So it’s a powder, 

(44:09) but they have an unsweetened as well. So if you want something, because what I do find is that 

(44:13) for some individuals, they’re fasting and they have something with stevia.

They notice they 

(44:17) have more cravings. They don’t feel as good. Some people do fine with it, right? So I’ll have it 

(44:22) a lot of times at the end of my fast, you know, and that’s great.

Like before a workout as I’m 

(44:27) finishing my fast. But you know, you could do something as simple. For a lot of people, 

(44:32) they do great with just a little bit of salt on their tongue.

And you know, just a little bit of 

(44:35) salt, put it on your tongue, drink some water. You feel great. Or pickle brine, like you were 

(44:38) talking about.

There’s no calories in pickle brine. You know, and it’s fantastic. It’s got 

(44:44) sodium water.

I feel great when I drink that. I love it. And so that can be really helpful.

(44:50) So I would definitely do something like that. And when it comes to a clean fast, 

(44:57) yeah, I mean, just fasting in general, you know, if you’re getting a small, 

(45:00) tiny amount of calories or a little bit of a sweetener, as long as you feel good, 

(45:04) right? You’re going to get a lot of the benefits. You’re going to get pretty much 

(45:07) 99.9% of the benefits.

So I wouldn’t overstress that. I don’t know about you guys, but I am 

(45:15) stressed. And if you’re feeling overwhelmed this holiday season, then I get it with all the family 

(45:21) get togethers.

It is just a relentless source of stress. But anyway, there is something that I’ve 

(45:28) got called stress guardian, and it’s actually made by, by optimizers, the people who make 

(45:33) the magnesium breakthrough, which I love, love, love. But anyway, they are literally made this 

(45:40) new product.

It has 14 adaptogenic herbs and it just regulates your stress. I just actually took 

(45:47) some right this second. And it’s awesome.

If you go to stress guardian.com slash waste away 

(45:53) and put in waste away for 10% off your first order, it’s stress guardian.com 

(45:59) slash waste away. Go there now. Yeah.

Well, this has been amazing. Is there 

(46:07) anything that I haven’t asked you that you want to kind of talk to people about when it comes to 

(46:13) either the whole pooping idea? I love that you once had, you know, really struggled with irritable 

(46:20) bowel syndrome because a lot of people really, this is just getting so crazy with so many people 

(46:26) with irritable bowel. And I, I have too.

So any lasting thoughts on that or any finishing thoughts 

(46:33) that you want to share with people on fasting that can kind of take them to the next level? 

(46:40) Yeah. Well, when it comes to poop, I would just say it’s so critical. So you really have to 

(46:43) prioritize it.

Like I said, 6 AM to 9 AM is really the most active time. So take the time, 

(46:49) get up a little earlier, do whatever you got to do to make sure you’re moving your bowels 

(46:53) early in the day. So you become more human than bacteria.

And that will set you up for a successful 

(46:58) day. A lot of people also notice that they move their bowels well after a meal. So like after 

(47:02) your first meal or whatever, you know, try to do the nasal breathing, some of the activities, 

(47:07) some of the things that we talked about, you know, to help, to help continue to move, 

(47:12) move feces out of your system and, and reduce your overall toxic load.

So I think that’s super 

(47:16) helpful. And then when it comes to fasting, I would say fasting is the most ancient, inexpensive 

(47:20) and powerful healing strategy known to mankind. Some incredible benefits that you get from fasting 

(47:25) and, you know, it doesn’t cost you anything.

And it’s something that’s been built into our 

(47:28) blueprint. So I know Chantal, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re helping your community and guiding 

(47:34) them on their fasting journey. So appreciate you doing that.

And I have a great resource as well. 

(47:39) My, my book, The Fasting Transformation, really great, great resource. And I also have a great 

(47:43) podcast where I talk about all this kind of stuff as well.

Dr. Jocker’s Functional Nutrition 

(47:47) Podcast. Yes. And the book that he has, The Fasting Transformation, you guys is absolutely 

(47:55) amazing.

So tell listeners where they can find you and where they can follow you. 

(48:01) Yeah, well, again, you can find me on my podcast, Dr. Jocker’s Functional Nutrition Podcast, 

(48:06) one of the more, most popular podcasts in the alternative health space, actually, 

(48:09) or top 10 alternative health. And you can find me on my website, drjockers.com and on different 

(48:15) social media channels as well.

All right. Well, you guys stay tuned. We’ve got another episode 

(48:20) coming up in just a few.

Bye bye for now. Hey guys, thanks for listening to today’s podcast. 

(48:26) If you enjoyed the podcast, it would mean the world to us for you to leave a review on iTunes 

(48:30) to get this podcast out to others that may have the same questions that you do.

And as always, 

(48:34) if you have a question that you want answered, email those two questions at chantalrayway.com. 

(48:38) Thanks again, and we’ll see you next time.