Waist Away: The Intermittent Fasting & Weight Loss Podcast

(0:00) She’s a business mogul, and wellness expert. How can I help? And now Chantel Ray and her 

(0:07) amazing guests are here to guide you on your wellness journey. Time to level up.

(0:12) Welcome to the Waste Away podcast. 

(0:20) Hey guys, welcome to today’s episode. And I’m so excited.

One of my absolute favorite people, 

(0:26) Dr. David Jockers, who is an expert on fasting. He’s got so many fasting books. He’s done so 

(0:33) many fasting podcasts, and we are here, and we’re actually going to be talking about how fasting 

(0:40) can potentially hurt your mobility in your gut.

But we’re going to talk about the five steps 

(0:47) to help you to have a healthy poop, increase your peristaltic movement, and so much more. 

(0:53) So Dr. David Jockers, welcome. 

(0:56) Chantel, always great to connect with you.

(0:58) So one of the things that, and you know I am the fasting queen, and there is one area that I still 

(1:07) personally struggle with. I feel like I really struggle with constipation on a regular basis. 

(1:15) And I believe that with as much fasting as I’ve done in my life, I truly believe that 

(1:22) doing fasting actually can potentially hurt your mobility and your peristaltic movement 

(1:27) if you don’t do some things right.

So I want you to really talk about what can people do 

(1:34) so that they can have the healthiest poop. But before we do, let’s talk about, first of all, 

(1:41) what does a healthy poop look like? 

(1:46) Yeah, that’s a great question. And this is one of my favorite topics because, you know, 

(1:50) in my early 20s, I actually struggled with irritable bowel syndrome.

And so I had intense 

(1:55) gut pain, and I would have constipation, diarrhea, right, and all kinds of different 

(2:00) issues. And I actually ended up losing about 30, 35 pounds. And I was a personal trainer.

So I was 

(2:04) eating six meals a day, time I woke up, time I went to bed, doing everything I could to kind of 

(2:10) maintain a certain amount of muscle mass. And that actually is what helped get me into 

(2:16) intermittent fasting. It’s what caused me to change my diet.

And I discovered intermittent 

(2:21) fasting, even though that term was not popular. In fact, I had never heard the term. I just found 

(2:26) that I felt better when I compressed my eating window.

And so for me, somebody who struggled 

(2:33) with constipation at times for probably the first 21 years of my life, this is an important topic. 

(2:39) And when we think about what the importance of poop, you know, we’ve probably all heard that 

(2:44) we have more bacteria in our bodies than we have cells in our body, right, when we look at the gut 

(2:51) microbiome. And some researchers believe that when you wake up in the morning and you’ve yet to have 

(2:58) a bowel movement, that you have somewhere between, you know, three to 10 times more bacteria in your 

(3:04) body than you have cells in your body.

And then when you have a good bowel movement in the morning, 

(3:09) you’re more like a one-to-one ratio. So you become more human again. And so, and we’ve all felt that, 

(3:16) right, because these bacteria, when they’re in the gut, they’re releasing different types of 

(3:20) molecules.

And many of them are releasing endotoxins that drive up inflammation in the body. 

(3:25) So critical that we’re having good bowel movements to clear those out. And we also, when we’re having 

(3:29) bowel movements, we’re sweeping out a ton of different toxins that our liver has deactivated 

(3:35) and put into the feces.

And so we don’t want those recirculating. When feces sits in our gut, 

(3:42) toxins will start to recirculate in our system and cause more inflammation throughout our whole body. 

(3:47) And so the time of day when our gut is most active is actually between 6 a.m. and 9 a.m. 

(3:53) and then also shortly after meals.

And so that’s the best time to have good bowel movements. And 

(3:58) normally our bowel movements should look like a coiled up snake in the toilet bowl. If you see it 

(4:04) just all these little tiny pieces, that’s not a healthy bowel movement.

If you see it very loose, 

(4:09) watery, not a healthy bowel movement. If it’s really hard to get out, not a healthy bowel 

(4:13) movement. It should be like a coiled up snake looking back at you.

And you shouldn’t have to 

(4:19) wipe a whole lot, right? You should have maybe three or four wipes and be done. If you’ve got 

(4:24) a very messy stool, that’s a sign that there was more mucus and inflammation that was produced in 

(4:31) that. And so how do we attain really good bowel movements? Well, I think intermittent fasting 

(4:37) actually is one of the best strategies for helping us improve the diversity and overall health of 

(4:45) the gut microbiome and helping support a healthy gut lining.

And I can go into the science of that. 

(4:51) However, fasting alone is not going to help you have good bowel movements because you need 

(4:55) something to help activate the peristaltic waves, the basically muscle contractions of the 

(5:03) smooth muscle in your gut. And so the type of muscle that your intestines are is a type of 

(5:10) muscle that’s controlled by what we call our autonomic nervous system.

We don’t have to 

(5:13) think about it. You can’t just sit there and concentrate on, like you can with your bicep. 

(5:18) You can’t do that with your gut.

You can’t just be like, okay, I’m going to contract this. 

(5:22) It’s an automatic wave and it’s controlled by, in particular, the main nerve is the vagus nerve 

(5:28) that actually comes from your brainstem. Vagus is Latin for wanderer, travels down from the 

(5:33) brainstem into circulate or into all the viscera, right? Helps control your heart rate, lungs, 

(5:39) goes into your digestive system and it controls peristaltic muscle contractions in your gut.

(5:46) And so in order to activate that vagus nerve, there are a couple of principles that tend to 

(5:50) work for most people. And then there’s some personalization that goes into it as well. 

(5:56) So when we start to think about, for example, the things that work well for everybody, well, 

(6:01) number one is your rhythm, right? And so again, 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. is when your gut is going to be 

(6:06) most active according to Chinese medicine.

And that’s when most people who have healthy 

(6:11) bowel movements, they will tell you, oh yeah, I have a bowel movement in the morning when I get 

(6:15) up, right? Anybody that’s got a good normal rhythm are telling you, yes, I have a bowel movement 

(6:20) usually within the first hour of waking. And so that is kind of the best place to start when 

(6:25) it comes to good bowel movements. So I recommend when you wake up, some people do really well 

(6:30) going for a walk that actually helps them.

Other people don’t, they need to be kind of still and 

(6:35) relaxed, right? So you kind of have to personalize that. But one thing I’ve seen help just about 

(6:40) everybody is warm beverages. So drinking warm herbal tea, warm lemon water, you could use 

(6:47) lemon water if you want, you could use herbal tea, both of those things help activate that 

(6:52) vagus nerve.

And also coffee can help. Okay, now, typically when it comes to caffeine metabolism, 

(6:57) I recommend waiting about 90 minutes before you have coffee because you naturally have an 

(7:04) elevation in cortisol when you first wake up in the morning. And that cortisol starts to go down 

(7:10) roughly after 90 minutes.

And so that’s a good time to have some of that caffeine to kind of boost up 

(7:16) those stress hormones if you tolerate and if you metabolize caffeine well. And you’ll notice that 

(7:21) you just have better energy throughout the day, you have less of the caffeine crash that some 

(7:25) people notice when they consume coffee first thing in the morning. Okay, so usually I recommend that 

(7:30) an hour and a half after if possible.

But for some people they need even a sip or two will help them 

(7:35) move their bowels. And if they feel like that’s the only thing that gets them going, then I’m okay 

(7:38) with that. Most people have experienced, you know, when you have coffee, it helps you move your 

(7:43) bowels.

The caffeine helps activate the parasaltic waves and gets things moving. And again, when you 

(7:49) reduce all the bacteria and endotoxins, you just feel significantly better. But if you can do it 

(7:53) with herbal tea, if you can do it with warm, just warm beverage in general, something warm will 

(7:58) activate that vagus nerve and help get things moving.

I know for me when I was struggling with 

(8:05) irregularity in my bowel movements, for whatever reason, when I sat on my knees, interesting posture, 

(8:12) right? So I would like sit at my desk, right? And I would, or on my laptop or whatever, and I would 

(8:20) just be on my knees. And that for whatever reason, that seemed to relax my internal organs and it 

(8:28) would help stimulate a bowel movement. Now I’m very regular, so I could be sitting in any position 

(8:34) and I will be able to, you know, have the urge for the bowel movement in the morning.

(8:40) But you might need a certain posture. My wife, for example, she’ll sit, she sits on her bed 

(8:47) and she’ll be reading her Bible, right? And she sits in a certain position on her bed and that 

(8:51) just helps her move her bowels. So sometimes you got to play around with it a little bit, 

(8:54) find like a good sitting posture, a good posture that seems to work for you.

Again, some people, 

(8:59) it’s just moving, right? Just kind of taking a walk seems to help activate it, a light walk. 

(9:04) Now, intense exercise is not going to help you. It’s the opposite system than the vagus nerve.

(9:09) It’s your sympathetic nervous system. So I would recommend making sure you get the bowel movement 

(9:14) out before you do any sort of intense exercise. So just taking a light walk or getting in a good 

(9:19) posture position, drinking out the warm beverage, that can all help.

And also sometimes like a 

(9:24) little abdominal massage, particularly in the bottom right quadrant of your gut, that’s where 

(9:32) your ileocecal valve is. And for some individuals that ileocecal valve tends to close and almost 

(9:40) like where your appendix is, especially people have had their appendix taken out. A lot of times 

(9:43) they have scar tissue in there.

And so just kind of doing a little gentle massage, right? That can 

(9:49) actually help open that ileocecal valve and allow things to move through. And you can almost kind of 

(9:56) follow that large intestine up. So you kind of come from the lower right quadrant up to the 

(10:01) upper right quadrant, and then over the transverse colon, and then down the descending colon, that

(10:07) can help.

And interestingly, your large intestine, there’s also a reflex point, and it’s in your 

(10:17) iliotibial band, which is basically on the lateral or the outer portion of your thigh. 

(10:23) And so for a lot of people, and this is something I actually used back when I did struggle with 

(10:28) constipation, I would massage the outer portion of my thighs. And a lot of people are really tight 

(10:34) in this area.

It’s a muscle called your tensor fascia lata and TFL, and your iliotibial band, 

(10:41) which connects your hip down to one of the bones in your leg, right? Your tibia. 

(10:50) And so that band can get real tight. And so you start to massage that out, or you can get on like 

(10:55) a foam roller and work that a little bit.

And a lot of times that’s a reflex point for the large 

(11:00) intestine. A large intestine, as that muscle relaxes, the large intestine relaxes as well. And that can 

(11:06) help get things moving through there.

So just a couple quick tips right there that I think can be 

(11:11) really helpful. Did you guys know that 97% of Americans are deficient in at least one mineral? 

(11:18) It’s true. You need more than a dozen minerals for your body to function in its best, but with the 

(11:26) standard American diet, it’s almost impossible.

So here’s where Bean Minerals comes in. 

(11:33) Guess what? All you have to do, take one little shot of this one, one little shot of this one, 

(11:39) and guess what? It looks like this, but it tastes like water. 

(11:43) Take one shot, and boom, in 30 seconds a day, you’re getting an entire thing of minerals, 

(11:53) instead of an entire cabinet of supplement bottles.

So with Bean Minerals, we make mineral balance 

(12:01) simple. I’m going to read a question from a listener, and this is from Bobby Joe Stevens in 

(12:08) San Diego, California. She says, I eat in a four to six-hour eating window almost every day.

(12:15) I’ve lost over 15 pounds. I’ve listened to your audio book, Waste Away, and One Meal and a 

(12:20) Tasting, and I listen in about 15-minute increments. I have about 10 pounds to go.

I 

(12:26) listen in my car almost every day. I have irritable bowel syndrome and alternating constipation and 

(12:34) diarrhea. I’m constantly constipated, and I have major pains in my stomach at night, and I think 

(12:40) it’s from constipation, but I’m not sure.

I’m constantly taking all these different natural 

(12:45) laxatives, and then I have diarrhea, and then I go back to being constipated. My friends tell me I 

(12:51) need to lengthen my eating window because I’m eating too much in a small period. I know I’ve 

(12:56) heard you talk about being constipated on the podcast.

What are some other tips that you’ve 

(13:02) done, and what do you think is causing the stomach pain? It’s only at night when I lay down and go to 

(13:07) bed. Sharp pain’s right in the middle of my stomach. What other tips do you have for me? 

(13:12) Walking seems to help, and using my Squatty Potty does help as well, but it’s not the end-all, 

(13:20) be-all.

Bobby Joe Stevens from San Diego, California. Yeah. This is a common question, 

(13:26) Bobby Joe, so I’m glad that you asked it.

Squatty Potty can be real helpful. It actually moves your 

(13:30) legs up, puts you in a natural position to help clear the colon, so I’m glad that you mentioned 

(13:36) that because I didn’t mention that earlier, but people getting a Squatty Potty notice that 

(13:40) oftentimes it does improve bowel movements, but obviously with her, she’s still having issues. 

(13:47) I would ask, first off, what you’re eating, and so obviously taking a look at that.

Your body may 

(13:53) be having a reaction to the foods that you’re eating. For example, some people are not able 

(13:58) to tolerate a higher FODMAP diet. FODMAP means fermentable oligodye monosaccharides and polyols, 

(14:08) which is basically a big term for a lot of vegetables, more or less, and so a lot of 

(14:14) these foods that are FODMAPs are what we consider very healthy foods, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, 

(14:20) kale, artichokes, a lot of these types of things that when we think about healthy foods, 

(14:28) we think about those foods, but for a lot of people, their unique gut microbiome, 

(14:35) it over-ferments them, particularly early in the digestive tract, in the small intestine, 

(14:41) and they get unwanted symptoms, so oftentimes we’ll do a lower FODMAP trial where we’ll take 

(14:47) out a lot of these foods, again, foods that you would think are super healthy, avocados even 

(14:51) are high FODMAP, but we do some lower FODMAP vegetables like green beans, carrots, cucumbers, 

(15:00) bell peppers are low FODMAP, arugula, you still do some of those vegetables, 

(15:05) and then healthy meats and olive oil as kind of a main fat or butter, and a lot of times people 

(15:12) see big improvements in their overall bowel movements, and so you kind of have to figure out, 

(15:17) and then over time, you can start adding back some of these FODMAPs and kind of figure out where 

(15:21) your threshold is, like for me, and I think pretty much most people are in a bell curve, 

(15:27) and the bell curve is this, is that on one end of the bell curve, people just don’t do well with a 

(15:32) lot of plant-based fiber, and on the other end of the bell curve, people do amazing with a lot of 

(15:39) plant-based fiber, and so you might have a friend that is eating salads all the time, 

(15:43) and they feel amazing, they feel the best they’ve ever felt eating lots and lots of plants, 

(15:48) and they don’t eat a whole lot of protein, a whole lot of animal foods, and then you have 

(15:51) somebody else that does amazing on a carnivore diet or a very low-carb, low-FODMAP diet, 

(15:57) and they seem to do amazing, and it has to do with how much of these kind of plant-based fibers that 

(16:02) they can consume, so usually when I have somebody that’s struggling with bloating like this, 

(16:06) I’ll start them with a lower-FODMAP diet, even for a week, and see how they feel, 

(16:13) and you can find a list of high-FODMAP, low-FODMAP foods, just go on Google, 

(16:17) easy to find, and see how your body responds.

Another thing would be maybe adding in some 

(16:23) digestive enzymes, and that can help you, and then some people, for example, they are not producing 

(16:29) enough stomach acid, and if you don’t produce enough stomach acid, which is actually very 

(16:34) common, we call this hypochloridria, when you’re not producing enough stomach acid, 

(16:38) you can’t sterilize the food you’re consuming, so you end up with bacterial overgrowth, 

(16:44) you don’t break down protein well, you don’t metabolize vitamin B12, different minerals 

(16:49) very well, you don’t activate enough bile release, because you need a very acidic bolus, 

(16:55) bolus means a predigested food, moving into the small intestine to activate good bile release, 

(16:59) and bile helps to emulsify fatty acids, and it also helps to, it’s very antimicrobial, 

(17:05) so is acid, and so that helps keep the bacterial balance in your small intestine down, 

(17:10) so if you’re not producing enough stomach acid, which I said is very common, 

(17:14) then you may have more digestive symptoms, particularly when you’re eating something like 

(17:19) a steak, or, you know, harder to digest protein, because you really need that acid for it, 

(17:24) and sometimes you see a lot of these kind of conditions, you know, where you have somebody 

(17:28) with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and low stomach acid together, so we have to look at 

(17:32) that, so a couple things you can do to kind of test yourself at home, one is a steak test, 

(17:38) get six ounces of steak, cook it, don’t put anything on it other than salt, and just eat that 

(17:44) all alone, and then see how your body feels over the next, let’s say, three or four hours, okay, 

(17:49) normally you should feel good, it’s very blood sugar stabilizing, right, good protein, you should 

(17:54) feel very good, okay, if you’re noticing that you’re bloated, acid reflux, brain fog, right, 

(17:59) just don’t feel good, you have skin issues, whatever it is, it’s a sign you’re not producing 

(18:03) enough stomach acid, another test is a broccoli test, get some steamed broccoli, steam it up, 

(18:09) don’t put anything on it other than salt, and just have steamed broccoli, okay, and see how you feel 

(18:15) over the next few hours, do you feel bloated, do you feel, you know, do you have acid reflux, 

(18:21) do you have worsening symptoms, if that’s the case, you probably have bacterial overgrowth, 

(18:27) you need a lower FODMAP diet, you can also try it with some digestive enzymes and see if that helps, 

(18:33) and so these are just a couple tests that you can do, you know, the third one would be like, 

(18:36) do a fat bomb, right, so if you look up on Google fat bomb recipe, you’ll find a fat bomb, 

(18:43) right, you probably had one before, Chantal, it’s like three, four hundred calories of just 

(18:47) coconut fat, usually in chocolate fat, it’s basically just all fat, you eat that and just 

(18:52) see how your body responds, again, if you’re feeling bloated, you have pain in your gut, 

(18:56) nauseous, it’s a sign you’re probably not producing enough bile, right, you need to get that bile 

(19:01) release in order to emulsify those fats, probably not doing that, so you need a little bit lower 

(19:06) amounts of fat in your meals and you need to do things to help support good bile flow, 

(19:11) and so that’s what you would want to do, and all of these things can be addressed, 

(19:15) like a low FODMAP diet is really good for helping clean up that small intestine, 

(19:19) to get good contractions in the gut, if you want to support bile, right, doing bitter herbs, 

(19:26) so things like artichokes, for example, radishes, cilantro, parsley, dandelion, 

(19:32) milk thistle supplements, so we say bitter is good for your liver, your liver is what produces 

(19:37) the bile, okay, and people will say, well, do I do that if I don’t have a gallbladder? 

(19:41) Yeah, because if you don’t have a gallbladder, that’s actually a late stage, that means you 

(19:47) had your gallbladder taken out, so if you had your gallbladder taken out, that means you’ve 

(19:50) had congested bile ducts in your liver and then also in your, the gallbladder you used to have 

(19:56) for a long time, okay, and so it’s more of like a late stage, so you really need to do everything 

(20:01) you can to help to open up those bile ducts, thin out the bile, so a lot of these kind of bitter 

(20:06) types of herbs are really supportive of that, and you can also get bile salt 

(20:10) supplements and ox bile and things like that, like a bile salt would be something like choline 

(20:16) that is actually, because bile is basically cholesterol and salt, right, and it kind of 

(20:23) flows, right, and it’s how we actually eliminate, one of the ways that we eliminate cholesterol, 

(20:28) it’s a way that we eliminate toxins, and so along with bilirubin, there’s a compound 

(20:32) called bilirubin that’s in bile as well, and so, and that’s what makes our stools brown, 

(20:38) right, so if you have like pale color stools, a lot of times you’re not getting enough bile out, 

(20:42) so those things can help, those types of herbs, hydrating your body really well, 

(20:47) right, the kind of the herbal teas I was talking about, you know, in the morning can really help 

(20:50) with bile flow, and a lot of those things work well for stomach acid too, like chewing on some 

(20:55) ginger root or drinking ginger tea, ginger is a great stimulant for, really helps stimulate 

(21:01) stomach acid production, so that can be super helpful, apple cider vinegar, like right before 

(21:06) meals can be really helpful, because it’s already, you know, acidic and it will help to activate 

(21:11) the vagus nerve to produce more acid, and in some cases we need betaine, actually a lot of cases we 

(21:17) need some extra stomach acid support in the form of betaine HCL, and finding the right dosage of 

(21:22) that to support stomach acid levels, so that’s where I would look based on her symptoms, number 

(21:28) one is looking at her diet, seeing what she’s eating on a regular basis, maybe she’s eating 

(21:31) something if she has, you know, a serious, you know, a sensitivity to, right, that’s another 

(21:37) thing, a lot of people are doing low carb, they’re doing a lot of sugar alcohols, like maybe erythritol 

(21:42) or something like that, and for many of them, they don’t digest those well, so just, you know, 

(21:46) dialing back on the sugar alcohols oftentimes can be helpful, we can play around with the FODMAPs, 

(21:51) we can play around with digestive enzymes, things to help support stomach acid bile production, 

(21:55) and kind of figure it out from there. Guys, I just want to interrupt for just a second, 

(22:00) and I want you to hear Paul Saladino talk about why liver is so important, 

(22:06) and if you don’t like liver, we have another option for you. Your ancestors were eating liver, 

(22:12) and the reason that this sort of wisdom has been passed down is because liver is very nutritious, 

(22:16) it’s basically nature’s multivitamin, if you look at the nutrients in meat, they’re great, 

(22:20) you’ve got zinc, you got B6, you got B12, you got some K2, but if you look at liver, 

(22:24) it really complements what’s in muscle meat, and there are many unique nutrients found in organs, 

(22:29) specifically liver, as a powerhouse of these, that are difficult to obtain outside of liver, 

(22:33) like meat and organs are like peanut butter and jelly, they just go together, 

(22:36) they’re supposed to be eaten together, the easiest way to eat liver is just to do it raw, 

(22:39) if you don’t want to eat liver raw, you can cook it, but the reason that I like to do it raw is 

(22:43) because there are unique nutrients in liver that are probably somewhat degraded when you cook the 

(22:47) liver.

This really is like the most nutrient-rich supplements that you can find, and they are 

(22:53) amazing, I have tried them, I absolutely love them, so just go to heartandsoil.co, 

(22:58) use the coupon code Chantal Ray, and save yourself some money. 

(23:07) Yeah, so one of the things that I think, you know, a lot of people don’t realize is like, 

(23:14) as far as the fiber, like you said, that they’re not getting enough fiber, and so that’s causing 

(23:20) constipation as well, but then a lot of the diets, like the keto diet and stuff like that, 

(23:27) there isn’t a ton of fiber in there, so how would someone balance that, like, 

(23:32) of eating enough fiber, but also, you know, if someone was trying to do more of a keto-ish diet, 

(23:38) what do you do to balance that? Yeah, I actually see the issue with, 

(23:44) so fiber I think is over-marketed, and I actually see more people have problems eating too much 

(23:50) fiber than too little. Now, if you are eating a standard American diet, you’re probably not 

(23:55) getting good forms of fiber, right, and so going on, you know, basically a diet with healthy meats, 

(24:02) fats, and fruits and vegetables, oftentimes people feel just significantly better, 

(24:06) and, you know, you really have to play around to see how much fiber you need to consume, 

(24:11) okay? So in, you know, typically in the functional health world, there’s kind of this blanket 

(24:16) statement that if you, if your gut isn’t doing well, you need more fiber, and I actually find 

(24:21) that that’s oftentimes the opposite is true, right? Actually, sometimes you need less fiber, 

(24:25) so you have to see how much you’re consuming already, how much of these plant-based foods 

(24:29) you’re consuming already, and then kind of figure out what the right amount is for you, okay? So 

(24:36) I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t focus on the amount of grams of fiber.

I would just kind of look at 

(24:41) the consistency of your meals and see how you feel when you’re eating those particular foods. 

(24:46) So these higher FODMAP vegetables, they support more microbiome diversity. They’re actually 

(24:52) healthy foods, and they are healthy for your gut microbiome, but if you already have an overgrowth, 

(24:57) particularly an overgrowth in your small intestine, you need to dial back on those 

(25:01) at least for a period of time, and then we can start to add them back in and kind of figure 

(25:06) out a tolerance point for you.

So I think that’s key, right? So, yeah, so I always recommend starting 

(25:13) with 30 to, when you set up your meals, 30 to 50 grams of healthy, high-quality animal protein, 

(25:21) around 15 to 20 grams of healthy fats, maybe more. So like I can do a high amount of fat in a meal 

(25:26) and feel good. Other people, because they have congested bile ducts, they can’t do as much fat.

(25:31) And then from there, add in colorful fruits and vegetables. And then, you know, from there, 

(25:37) if you’re setting up your diet like that, yet you’re not feeling good, you’re having these 

(25:41) digestive symptoms, the things you want to play around with are looking at how well you’re breaking 

(25:47) down protein, like look at your stomach acid. We talked about the steak test.

Look at how well 

(25:51) you’re breaking down FODMAPs. We talked about the broccoli test. Look at how well you’re breaking 

(25:55) down fat.

We talked about the fat bomb test, right? And then address it from there. Hopefully, 

(26:02) that makes sense. Yeah, and I will say I have one trick that I didn’t know until just recently 

(26:08) about how to sit on a squatty potty when you do.

And it’s where you not just sit on the squatty 

(26:16) potty, but you actually take your arms and your whole body and you lean over and actually put 

(26:22) your hands kind of like near your ankles so that you’re changing the posture that you’re sitting in. (26:30) You know, we were not meant to sit on toilets, you know, and so it’s like if you don’t have 

(26:35) comfortable bowel movements, you know, I remember President Jimmy Carter back in 1978, 

(26:42) there was this Time Magazine article that I had read about, and he actually, 

(26:48) the president missed a day of work due to hemorrhoids. And he quoted something like, 

(26:55) we were not meant to sit on toilets, we were meant to squat in the field.

So he must have done some 

(26:59) kind of research or something. And that always stuck with me. And if you think about it, 

(27:04) our ancestors did squat.

And so getting your body in that right position, and it’s kind of like this, 

(27:12) it’s like a recto-anal angle. And that angle, getting your body in that perfect angle, 

(27:19) which is what happens when you squat, really helps things move along. And so that was just a game 

(27:27) changer for me.

So every single bathroom in my house actually has a squatty potty. So like, 

(27:32) if you come over in our guest room or whatever, there’s a squatty potty in there. And we had a 

(27:39) party on Saturday, and they said, every one of, because we have like seven bathrooms, and he’s 

(27:44) like, every one of your bathrooms has a squatty potty? And he was kind of joking me about it.

(27:49) And I’m like, yeah, because if you have to poop while you’re at my house, I want you to be able 

(27:54) to do it right. Fully clear out. There you go.

(28:00) And also for me, walking. Walking is such a big thing. The more I walk, the better poop that I 

(28:08) have.

And breathing. I really don’t breathe well. I went and got a massage the other day, 

(28:16) and the guy said to me, he said, Ms. Ray, don’t take this the wrong way, but you breathe like a 

(28:21) scared squirrel.

That was his exact words to me. And I just, I don’t inhale and exhale properly. 

(28:30) And if you think about it, when you go on vacation, you know how people always say, 

(28:34) like when they go and they’re in a strange place or they’re busy, that can exacerbate constipation.

(28:42) And so just like really relaxing and breathing, which I don’t do well, but the more better I do 

(28:51) it, I do actually feel better. Yeah, that’s key. And there’s also a 

(28:55) relationship between nasal breathing and mouth breathing and your bowel movements as well, 

(29:00) because when you’re mouth breathing, you’re activating more of the sympathetic branch of 

(29:08) your nervous system.

When you’re nasal breathing, you’re activating that vagus nerve, and that’s 

(29:12) going to help you with the peristaltic activity in your gut. So I used to be more of a mouth 

(29:20) breather until I retrained my nervous system to be a nasal breather. One of the ways that I did 

(29:25) that was just by being intentional about it, just kind of as I would sit there thinking about 

(29:30) breathing only through my nose.

And then at night, I actually started putting tape over my mouth. 

(29:36) This was years ago, called mouth taping. And what that does obviously forces me to have to breathe 

(29:42) through my nose at night while I’m sleeping.

And so you want to retrain your physiology. 

(29:46) Most people in our society are mouth breathers, are breathing mostly from their mouth. 

(29:51) And that’s, again, associated with sympathetic nervous system.

So you need good vagal tone in 

(29:59) your vagus nerve, and that’s part of the parasympathetic branch, and they’re antagonistic 

(30:03) to each other. The more we’re activating the sympathetic nervous system, the more we down 

(30:08) regulate and get less activity in the parasympathetic. The more we activate the 

(30:12) parasympathetic, we’re getting less activity in the sympathetic.

So just the way we breathe, 

(30:16) if you’re nasal breathing, you’re going to get more activity in the parasympathetic branch, 

(30:21) so you’re going to get better muscle contractions in the vagus nerve. So as you’re sitting, 

(30:26) taking breaths, make sure you’re nasal breathing. And yeah, take those long breaths.

That tells 

(30:32) your body you’re in a safe place, because our physiology is all designed for survival. 

(30:37) So if you’re taking short, shallow breaths, it thinks you’re scared and you may be 

(30:40) like danger is around. And so it’s going to activate the sympathetic nervous system.

(30:45) If danger is around, it’s not a good time to have bowel movement, right? If you’re safe, 

(30:49) good time to have bowel movement. So the way you breathe really helps to communicate with 

(30:57) the rest of your physiology on your environmental condition. 

(31:01) I just started using mouth tape, and I have an Oura ring, and I’m tracking to see.

I already 

(31:07) get really good sleep. I get kind of a crown every night for most nights on the Oura ring, 

(31:13) but I’m just kind of tracking. How long did it take for you to use the mouth tape? And do you 

(31:20) feel like you still need it now? And how long does it take to use that mouth tape to train your 

(31:26) body to breathe through your nose instead of your mouth? Or do you feel like you still have to use 

(31:31) the mouth tape? Yeah, I think you could probably use it for about a month.

And I mean, you should 

(31:35) be able to train yourself within a month. And then you just kind of look for symptoms. Are you waking 

(31:39) up with out of breath? Or are you waking up with dry mouth? Do you have a dry mouth when you wake 

(31:47) up in the morning? Sign your mouth breathing.

Or kind of try to observe yourself as you’re working 

(31:54) or as you’re doing your daily life. Do you feel like you’re mouth breathing? And so those are kind 

(32:00) of the ways that you try to observe. And then, yeah, I think once you train your nervous system, 

(32:06) you don’t necessarily need to go back unless you’re seeing signs that you are mouth breathing 

(32:11) and then get back on the mouth tape.

Okay. This next question comes from Samir in Phoenix, 

(32:18) Arizona. And it’s such a long question.

So I’m just going to summarize it in my own words. 

(32:23) And basically what Samir is saying is that he is taking so many supplements and he feels like it’s 

(32:33) just overloaded. And so it’s like, what are kind of the supplements that you would suggest? Like, 

(32:39) obviously, ideally, we’d get every nutrient that we could from our food, but our food sources have 

(32:45) gotten so poor that it’s really hard to do that.

But what he says is, and I love it because I can 

(32:51) relate to this, is basically that every time he listens to another podcast, it’s like, well, 

(32:56) you’re missing this and you’re missing that and you’re missing that. And then literally the counter 

(33:01) has 50 supplements and then you feel terrible because you’re taking so many. So kind of, 

(33:08) if you had to choose kind of the top five of what it would be, what would that look like for you? 

(33:17) Yeah, it’s a great question.

And ultimately to really know it needs to be personalized, 

(33:22) but I would say like a really good high quality multivitamin is a good approach, good thing to do. 

(33:29) Magnesium, I find that so many people are magnesium deficient and that’s one of the 

(33:33) supplements I see people really respond, they feel the benefit of that. In our society,

(33:37) we’re so sympathetic dominant, we’re so on the go, so much stress.

Magnesium really helps calm us 

(33:43) and it’s needed in the mitochondria to produce energy. And you need it really for everything 

(33:48) in your body. We say magnesium is to the body what oil is to a car.

And most of us, 

(33:53) it’s hard to get it in your diet. And so I find that supplementation is really helpful. 

(33:58) For most people, they need extra vitamin D. Most people are not sunbathing on a regular basis.

(34:04) And so they need extra vitamin D. Now you might be, you might get a lot of sun exposure in that, 

(34:09) in that, which case you could test your vitamin D, you may not need it. But depending on where 

(34:13) you live and how much time you spend outdoors, particularly in your bathing suit, right. Or, 

(34:18) you know, without a shirt on basically, you know, if you’re just getting outdoors and getting 

(34:22) your hands and your face sun, you’re not going to produce enough vitamin D. You really need to get 

(34:26) your arms, right? Like legs, like a large portion of your body to really get enough vitamin D from 

(34:32) the sun.

So for most people, vitamin D, and a lot of times you can get vitamin D with vitamin K2. 

(34:38) And sometimes you can get vitamin D, K2, and magnesium all together in a supplement. And I 

(34:43) think that that’s super helpful.

If you can get those all together, I think, I think that’s really 

(34:48) great. For a lot of people, probiotics, they do really well on probiotics. So that can be super 

(34:53) helpful.

And, you know, if I were to add one more, I might say something like maybe some extra 

(35:00) zinc or some liver support supplements. I find that a lot of people need extra support for their 

(35:05) liver. Digestive enzymes can be helpful for a lot of people.

So those would be the kind of areas 

(35:11) that I would, I would go in. Did you guys know that your thyroid’s main food is iodine? And 

(35:17) guess what? Mercury and other toxins gobble up your selenium and your thyroid glands need 

(35:25) selenium to convert iodine to thyroxine. So if you have mercury fillings and with all the toxins 

(35:32) and mold, your selenium gets, just gets gobbled up.

So here’s the bottom line. I take something 

(35:38) called heat thyroid. It’s got iodine, it’s got copper, and it’s got selenium.

Everything you 

(35:45) need to get your thyroid back to functioning without medicine. So go to chantalrayway.com 

(35:51) slash upgraded formulas. Use the coupon code chantalray to get a huge discount.

All right, 

(35:58) I’m going to ask you another listener question. This is from Laura in Little Rock, Arkansas. 

(36:04) I am still getting leg cramps at night.

I take magnesium, but sometimes when I take the magnesium, 

(36:10) the leg cramps can sometimes get worse. The only thing that helps me is a little bit of 

(36:15) coconut water or increasing my potassium. I feel like I’m constantly drinking water and I’m 

(36:21) constantly dehydrated.

The more water I drink, it doesn’t really help, 

(36:26) and I’m just can’t seem to get hydrated. Thanks, dehydrated Laura. 

(36:32) Yeah.

So, you know, you may need to add more potassium in your diet and also maybe more 

(36:37) sodium. So sodium is really key to help get the water into the cells. And a lot of people, 

(36:41) especially if they’re on like a lower carb diet or they’re fasting, they need more sodium because 

(36:46) their insulin is down.

So when insulin… So in our society, we hear that salt is bad. 

(36:52) And if you have high insulin levels, you retain sodium and then you retain water, 

(36:58) and that causes swelling in your body. And it also can cause high blood pressure, 

(37:03) a lot of other different issues.

But when you’re doing intermittent fasting or an extended fast, 

(37:09) or if you’re on a low carb diet, you’re exercising, you are reducing, you’re lowering your insulin. 

(37:14) When insulin gets below a certain threshold, your body doesn’t hold onto the sodium. You 

(37:19) actually need more of it.

So a lot of people do well by taking electrolytes. That’s one way to 

(37:25) help. Obviously, coconut water is real bioavailable, structured water that’s helpful for the body.

(37:35) And it’s got a lot of potassium in it. So for me, I noticed that, for example, 

(37:40) there’s times where I’ve gone real low carb, but I can’t really do that for very long. 

(37:44) I like to add back in fruit.

And so my body does well adding in some extra fruit, and I’m a very 

(37:48) active person anyways, and I do intermittent fasting. So I get into ketosis when I’m intermittent 

(37:54) fasting. And then when I eat usually two to sometimes three meals in, let’s say, a six-hour 

(38:01) eating window, I add in fruit.

And the fruit provides structured water that actually gets 

(38:08) into the cells. If you’re just drinking filtered water, that filtered water can be good for moving 

(38:13) your bowels, and a little bit of it is going to be used and get into the cells. But actually, 

(38:18) structured water, which they call the fourth phase of water, is actually a form that gets 

(38:25) into your cell.

It deeply hydrates your cells better. How do we get structured water? Well, 

(38:32) the number one way is eating fruits and vegetables, right? They’re rich in 

(38:36) naturally structured water. Another way is there’s a device called Onalema.

I actually 

(38:41) have a whole house Onalema where it filters the water and structures it. You can also get a little 

(38:46) stirring device that you can stir your water. It’s just onalemawater.com, I think, or something like (38:52) that.

But yeah, it’s a great way to get structured water into the system. Coconut water is a form of 

(38:58) structured water. So those things can be really helpful.

And I would just tell you, a lot of people 

(39:03) just do better when they take a little bit of salt and put it in, and a little bit of salt on 

(39:08) their finger and take that, and that works well. And then for other people, especially if you’re 

(39:13) noticing that magnesium seems to make the cramping worse, in some cases I’ve seen where a calcium 

(39:25) magnesium supplement, like a powder, people tend to have less and they feel better, right? So you 

(39:33) may need a little bit more calcium. I think it’s potassium.

I will tell you, 

(39:37) I believe lead cramps come from the, and I have no scientific proof for this. I’m telling you, 

(39:45) because I struggle with lead cramps before, I believe that it’s the potassium magnesium ratio. 

(39:52) So it’s not, you know, what happens with people is that they take one thing and then the other 

(39:59) thing is off.

You know, everything in our body has to do with balance as well. And so when we’re not 

(40:06) balanced, that is a really, really big piece of how you can feel better. So I think from the answer 

(40:16) for me is, you know, a lot of times when people think of also, I think the dehydration piece is 

(40:23) another piece.

I think that she needs to drink a lot more, more potassium or have potassium 

(40:27) and find you need the magnesium, but you also have to balance it with potassium. 

(40:32) And then when you think about water, like the water that we think of in just a regular glass, 

(40:38) it tastes good to drink and it feels good to drink and it’s clean, but your body is 70% water, 

(40:45) but it’s not a single ounce of that water is in the form of water of like a Fiji water that you 

(40:52) think, right? It’s actually in a crystalline structure. It’s almost like a jello kind of 

(40:57) structure.

When you go to the hospital and they give you an IV, they’re having, you’re getting, 

(41:04) you know, like I just went to the restore cryotherapy. I got the, not just the saline 

(41:09) bag, but I got it with magnesium, potassium with electrolytes in it. And you know, the water that 

(41:16) you’re holding in your body is, it’s not just the regular water.

So if you drink the water and you 

(41:23) just pee it out and it’s not getting into your cell, that’s where the problem is. And so getting 

(41:30) those electrolytes, I think is one of the biggest keys for me to not having leg cramps. And like you 

(41:37) said, just taking salt, putting it on your tongue or getting some more Celtic sea salt in your diet 

(41:45) can really help.

Yeah, for sure. It can be personalized. Like you said, for you, 

(41:50) just notice better, you’re doing better when you have potassium.

So I found that in a sense, 

(41:56) almost like a trial and error with different individuals, but a good place to start is just 

(42:00) a little bit of electrolytes and, you know, a little bit of salt on your mouth because that’s 

(42:05) on your tongue, because that’s such a low hanging fruit to start with. 

(42:09) Yeah. I’m going to read you one more question that we have, and this is from Donna Wright.

(42:14) Hi, I’m new and I’m starting to get very fatigued and lightheaded. I’m told electrolytes will help, 

(42:21) but to look for capsules instead of powders or drinks that will break a clean fast. Any 

(42:27) recommendations? And then before I move on, because I have like three more questions, 

(42:33) but I’m not going to read them, but they’re all about the same thing.

And it’s people getting 

(42:38) crazy, in my opinion, about this clean fast. And I am really big on having a clean fast, 

(42:48) but at the same time, I’m not Nazi about it. Meaning like if I’m getting fatigued or 

(42:55) lightheaded, if I’m maybe doing a longer fast, I’m going to have a spoonful of pickle juice, 

(43:04) or I might have something like that.

And people will be like, well, that’s not a clean fast. 

(43:10) Okay. Well, I want to fast longer, so I’m going to have a little bit of pickle juice.

(43:15) Or some people are like, well, I just can’t have coffee with no cream. So then they put the cream 

(43:23) and the sugar and I go, okay, find a balance with it and put coconut cream fresh from the can and 

(43:30) try that to, you know, I just think that people start getting so crazy about the clean fast 

(43:37) that then they’re not doing the fasting at all. And my opinion is like, like this girl saying 

(43:45) she’s getting, you know, she’s feeling lightheaded.

It’s like, okay, well have a little bit, have 

(43:52) electrolyte powder and not worry that it has 10 calories in it or whatever it has. 

(44:00) So what’s your opinion? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I agree. I mean, 

(44:03) I like the element electrolytes.

I’ll use those and they have an unsweetened. So it’s a powder, 

(44:09) but they have an unsweetened as well. So if you want something, because what I do find is that 

(44:13) for some individuals, they’re fasting and they have something with stevia.

They notice they 

(44:17) have more cravings. They don’t feel as good. Some people do fine with it, right? So I’ll have it 

(44:22) a lot of times at the end of my fast, you know, and that’s great.

Like before a workout as I’m 

(44:27) finishing my fast. But you know, you could do something as simple. For a lot of people, 

(44:32) they do great with just a little bit of salt on their tongue.

And you know, just a little bit of 

(44:35) salt, put it on your tongue, drink some water. You feel great. Or pickle brine, like you were 

(44:38) talking about.

There’s no calories in pickle brine. You know, and it’s fantastic. It’s got 

(44:44) sodium water.

I feel great when I drink that. I love it. And so that can be really helpful.

(44:50) So I would definitely do something like that. And when it comes to a clean fast, 

(44:57) yeah, I mean, just fasting in general, you know, if you’re getting a small, 

(45:00) tiny amount of calories or a little bit of a sweetener, as long as you feel good, 

(45:04) right? You’re going to get a lot of the benefits. You’re going to get pretty much 

(45:07) 99.9% of the benefits.

So I wouldn’t overstress that. I don’t know about you guys, but I am 

(45:15) stressed. And if you’re feeling overwhelmed this holiday season, then I get it with all the family 

(45:21) get togethers.

It is just a relentless source of stress. But anyway, there is something that I’ve 

(45:28) got called stress guardian, and it’s actually made by, by optimizers, the people who make 

(45:33) the magnesium breakthrough, which I love, love, love. But anyway, they are literally made this 

(45:40) new product.

It has 14 adaptogenic herbs and it just regulates your stress. I just actually took 

(45:47) some right this second. And it’s awesome.

If you go to stress guardian.com slash waste away 

(45:53) and put in waste away for 10% off your first order, it’s stress guardian.com 

(45:59) slash waste away. Go there now. Yeah.

Well, this has been amazing. Is there 

(46:07) anything that I haven’t asked you that you want to kind of talk to people about when it comes to 

(46:13) either the whole pooping idea? I love that you once had, you know, really struggled with irritable 

(46:20) bowel syndrome because a lot of people really, this is just getting so crazy with so many people 

(46:26) with irritable bowel. And I, I have too.

So any lasting thoughts on that or any finishing thoughts 

(46:33) that you want to share with people on fasting that can kind of take them to the next level? 

(46:40) Yeah. Well, when it comes to poop, I would just say it’s so critical. So you really have to 

(46:43) prioritize it.

Like I said, 6 AM to 9 AM is really the most active time. So take the time, 

(46:49) get up a little earlier, do whatever you got to do to make sure you’re moving your bowels 

(46:53) early in the day. So you become more human than bacteria.

And that will set you up for a successful 

(46:58) day. A lot of people also notice that they move their bowels well after a meal. So like after 

(47:02) your first meal or whatever, you know, try to do the nasal breathing, some of the activities, 

(47:07) some of the things that we talked about, you know, to help, to help continue to move, 

(47:12) move feces out of your system and, and reduce your overall toxic load.

So I think that’s super 

(47:16) helpful. And then when it comes to fasting, I would say fasting is the most ancient, inexpensive 

(47:20) and powerful healing strategy known to mankind. Some incredible benefits that you get from fasting 

(47:25) and, you know, it doesn’t cost you anything.

And it’s something that’s been built into our 

(47:28) blueprint. So I know Chantal, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re helping your community and guiding 

(47:34) them on their fasting journey. So appreciate you doing that.

And I have a great resource as well. 

(47:39) My, my book, The Fasting Transformation, really great, great resource. And I also have a great 

(47:43) podcast where I talk about all this kind of stuff as well.

Dr. Jocker’s Functional Nutrition 

(47:47) Podcast. Yes. And the book that he has, The Fasting Transformation, you guys is absolutely 

(47:55) amazing.

So tell listeners where they can find you and where they can follow you. 

(48:01) Yeah, well, again, you can find me on my podcast, Dr. Jocker’s Functional Nutrition Podcast, 

(48:06) one of the more, most popular podcasts in the alternative health space, actually, 

(48:09) or top 10 alternative health. And you can find me on my website, drjockers.com and on different 

(48:15) social media channels as well.

All right. Well, you guys stay tuned. We’ve got another episode 

(48:20) coming up in just a few.

Bye bye for now. Hey guys, thanks for listening to today’s podcast. 

(48:26) If you enjoyed the podcast, it would mean the world to us for you to leave a review on iTunes 

(48:30) to get this podcast out to others that may have the same questions that you do.

And as always, 

(48:34) if you have a question that you want answered, email those two questions at chantalrayway.com. 

(48:38) Thanks again, and we’ll see you next time.